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君子报仇,十五年不晚

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正当大家惊异于苹果作为CPU设计“新军”竟然能推出拳打intel脚踢AMD的M1芯片时,我建议大家扒一扒它的历史,不扒不要紧,一扒吓一跳。说来话长,需要从上世纪末DEC破产开始扯起,大名鼎鼎的alpha时运不济但是它的思想广泛影响,intel和其他很多公司一样也趁机搜罗了不少DEC的人才,Intel通过诉讼和解也得到了超线程技术。其中DEC的加利福尼亚PA分部在DanDobberpuhl带领下决定不投靠intel而是自己拉队伍单干,或许Dan这人的个性就是喜欢创建新公司然后卖掉,这个Dan Dobberpuhl非常了得,著名的StrongARM就是他带领下创造的,当然DEC德州分支和苹果前雇员的贡献也值得一提。StrongARM把英国的公版ARM打得抬不起头,可以说是苹果A系的前世。

2004-2005期间,Dan Dobberpuhl得到乔布斯暗示开发一款Mac机的CPU,于是PA Semi在DanDobberpuhl带领下从无到有设计了 PowerPC架构的PA6T-1682M,相关性能参见
https://www.realworldtech.com/pa-semi/6/
与当时风华正茂的酷睿相比,双核2Ghz的PA6T-1682M在整数性能相当,但是浮点只有一半,设计之初就是牺牲浮点换取低功耗,属于SoC,只有5或13瓦(信息来源不同),制造工艺应该不如Intel,但足以看出PA semi团队在低功耗嵌入式领域的功力,不要误会,他们的性能并不比当时主流桌面CPU差,这是重点。

Jim Keller大家觉得是大师了,而他的师傅就是Dan Dobberpuhl,后者得曾在2003 年获颁 IEEE Solid State Circuits Award,以表彰他为高性能低功耗芯片领域作出的贡献。可以肯定的是,Daniel W. Dobberpuhl在半导体领域的地位是Jim Keller目前难以企及的。
https://www.sohu.com/a/230228747_132567

Jim Keller的人生轨迹,DEC-AMD-Sibyte-PA semi-Apple-AMD-Tesla-Intel, 一个本科生能做到的极限,莫过于此了!很多人总是被AMD和Intel吸引了目光,似乎Jim Keller总在玩x86,却忘了一件极其重要的事情,Jim Keller身后的恩师Dan Dobberpuhl及其芯片设计业务!上个世纪Jim Keller在Dan Dobberpuhl领导下参与了Alpha,又玩过K7/K8离开了AMD,然后去了Sibyte和PA Semi,这两个都是Dan Dobberpuhl创立的公司!他们在那里分别搞MIPS和PPC架构,Dan领导下的团队是RISC的骨灰级玩家了,无论是什么ISP,总能设计出地表最强嵌入式芯片,而且性能有潜力挑翻主流x86,这个从StrongARM和PA6T两个产品性能就可见一斑了,所以当2008年PASemi连同Jim被苹果收购,等于StrongARM的旧部直接加入乔布斯麾下,Newton项目凤凰涅盘成iOS设备,StrongARM的转世投胎就是A系,所以苹果和地表最强嵌入式设计团队从没有分开过,也根本不是什么CPU设计新军,而是资格很老的圈内人,老到可以追溯到DEC,20年来从没有停止脚步,静静的看着intel和AMD掐架、**,挤牙膏。。。。如今StrongARM重出江湖,一片血雨腥风啊。
顺便提一下乔布斯确实腹黑,2004年左右Dan花了几千万美元开发PA6T,耗光了PA semi的资金,老乔却在2005年拥抱了Intel,PA6T失去最重要的潜在客户,只能给美国军方供应少量芯片,Dan气得要命,但是这不等于说 PA semi的东西不好,恰恰是乔布斯的眼光毒辣,他看到了移动大潮即将来临,也知道Dan的团队是地表No1的嵌入式团队,略施小计得到这支与苹果在90年代初就有渊源的精锐,进而在移动领域大杀四方,然后呢,我想乔布斯对电脑的情节永远存在,哪怕公司名称从“苹果电脑公司“变成”苹果公司“,他们总是要回来的,今天,他们终于回来了,RISC嵌入式正面和X86火力全开!没有前戏,一上来就是决战!不要说什么”年轻人不讲武德“,他们根本不是年轻人!也别跟我提什么物理定律!早在 2006年,10瓦的PA6T就可以叫板100多瓦的X86.
https://www.theregister.com/2006/05/17/pasemi_core_ti/
X86粉感觉受到了刺激,是因为他们从来不知道有这么一帮牛人在干这么牛的事情,只不过技术的成功不等于商业生态的成功。例如有一款电脑叫做AmigaOne X1000,就是用了PT6A的SOC,如今RISC的SoC再次降临,依托财大气粗的苹果及其生态体系,一场革命已经到来!让X86体会一下站在时代浪潮对立面的感觉,当年X86就是这么对待小型机Alpha的,如今以其人之道还其人之身!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000




IP属地:山东1楼2020-11-13 17:00回复
    对于上述历史的理解,直接促成了我在几年前建立这个applechip吧,因为我深知他们迟早要回来的。


    IP属地:山东2楼2020-11-13 17:18
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      前排,t神好久不见


      IP属地:北京来自iPhone客户端3楼2020-11-13 17:37
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        你是伪果粉吧?


        来自Android客户端4楼2020-11-13 18:06
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          那个Jonhny srouji也是大佬中的大佬


          IP属地:江苏来自iPhone客户端5楼2020-11-13 20:19
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            我买个win本能听歌看电影打游戏,搞各种开发,兼容性无压力,有问题了百度教程一大堆。arm苹果本能干啥?天天看电影?


            IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端6楼2020-11-14 09:22
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              目前买arm苹果本,能比上win加x86的地方,只有跑分跑分跑分,买回来啥也不干就跑分,颅内高潮干翻x86,天天用跑分意淫单核干翻10900k,摸到5950x是吧。


              IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端7楼2020-11-14 09:25
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                Jobs有一手


                IP属地:加拿大8楼2020-11-14 09:53
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                  非常开心能看到lz整理的过往历史,这类文字貌似很少看到,看得出lz是懂体系的


                  来自iPhone客户端9楼2020-11-14 13:51
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                    哎,美国以外的世界,甚至夸张一点硅谷以外、苹果以外的公司和美国巨头差距越来越大,英伟达又要收购ARM,我们该怎么办呢这对全世界可不是什么好消息。我们被封锁,欧洲扶不上墙,日韩被美国控制,俄国也不行了...谁来跟苹果这些巨头来竞争呢?


                    IP属地:山东来自Android客户端10楼2020-11-14 17:33
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                      其他公司该怎么办呢国产CPU还有希望吗?本来眼瞅着能靠ARM拉一拉差距的,结果转眼ARM都快成美国控制了


                      IP属地:山东来自Android客户端11楼2020-11-14 17:44
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                        https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/mercurynews/obituary.aspx?pid=194350557
                        Dan Dobberpuhl在去年10月26日去世,愿他在天堂安息!他生前应该知道A系的实力,只是看不到横扫PC的盛况了。


                        IP属地:山东12楼2020-11-14 20:55
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                          Daniel Dobberpuhl
                          March 25, 1945 - October 26, 2019
                          Monterey
                          Daniel W. Dobberpuhl quietly passed away Saturday, October 26 at home in Monterey, CA after a lengthy illness and hospitalization. He is survived by his wife Carol, son Walter, daughter Christine, and Walter's two daughters, Katelyn and Nicole Dobberpuhl.
                          Dan was born to Walter W. and Dorothy (McDavitt) Dobberpuhl in Streator, Illinois on March 25, 1945. He lived and was educated in Streator, where his love of electronics blossomed from assembling Heathkit radio components in elementary school. At 18, he earned his FCC First Class Radio Engineer license and graduated from Streator High School in 1963. He installed the FM radio system at Streator radio station WIZZ during a summer job in 1965. He graduated from the University of Illinois with a BSEE in 1967, the same year he married Carol Higgins, and accepted a position at The National Security Agency, Ft. Meade Maryland, which began his over 50 year career in engineering, working with industry giants from Ken Olsen of Digital Equipment Corp to Apple's Steve Jobs.
                          Dan served on active duty in the United States Army from November 1968 to 1970, in Turkey and at Vint Hill Farms VA, followed by subsequent US Army Reserves service at Ft. Devens Massachusetts.
                          His career included employment at NSA, General Electric, Integrated Circuit Systems, and Digital Equipment Corporation. After retirement from DEC in 1998 he co-founded SiByte, Inc. which he subsequently sold to Broadcom and then co-founded P.A. Semi which he sold to Apple. Dan co authored "The Design and Analysis of VLSI Circuits" with colleague Lance A. Glasser and was a guest lecturer at MIT, Stanford University and the University of Illinois. He held 15 patents.
                          In 1996, Forbes ASAP cited Dan as one of the forces that would continue to expand the complexity and efficiency of microprocessors. Career design and development milestones included the DEC T-11, Micro VAX, ALPHA and Strong Arm processors. He led design of the first commercial Multi-Core System on a Chip at SiByte, Inc. with the most talented team in Silicon Valley and later at P.A. Semi led the design of the PWRficient architecture which was the underpinning for SOC processors used in Apple iPhones and iPads.
                          In 2003, Dan was awarded the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers prestigious Donald O. Pederson Award in Solid-State Circuits for pioneering design of high-speed and low-power microprocessors. He was elected to the National Academy Engineering in 2006. He was honored with a 2003 University of Illinois Distinguished Alumni Award, the U of I College of Engineering Distinguished Alumni Award in 2009, and inducted into the U of I College of Engineering Hall of Fame in 2016.
                          After retirement from Apple in 2009, Dan expanded his interests and involvement in the electronics industry supporting numerous companies and start-ups. He particularly enjoyed working with and mentoring students and recent grads just beginning their engineering careers. He had great respect for all colleagues and was quick to point out what he learned from them.
                          A kind and gentle spirit, Dan was highly regarded and will be missed by all.


                          IP属地:山东13楼2020-11-14 21:01
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                            IP属地:山东14楼2020-11-14 21:02
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                              with the most talented team in Silicon Valley and later at P.A. Semi led the design of the PWRficient architecture which was the underpinning for SOC processors used in Apple iPhones and iPads.
                              这句话证明了iOS设备的芯片设计思路源于PA6T(PWRficient系列),虽然当时的ISA是PowerPC,但是微架构设计风格应该是保留下来了。


                              IP属地:山东15楼2020-11-14 22:15
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